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« The Monday Morning Foreign Region DVD Report... | Main | London Film Festival: 'Funny Games U.S.' »

October 29, 2007

Comments

I'm glad you put this back up, because this sort of "criticism" drives me nuts, especially as Edelstein is included. I'm going to go ahead and assume you don't want your comments section to turn into an insult-fest, so I'll just repeat that I'm glad Edelstein was included.

Although I don't think you yourself are completely innocent of this sort of thing. I remember reading a review you wrote of "The Secret Lives of Dentists" where you rather sarcastically referred to Hope Davis as an object of sexual obsession.

Nobody beats Stanley Kaufman, though, who in his review of "Thieves Like Us" described Shelley Duvall as a "buck-toothed beanpole", at least implying (my memory is sketchy here -- he might have just come right out and said it) that she was therefore unworthy of Keith Carradine's affections in that film. Meanwhile, of course, the picture of Kaufman on the back of the collection of reviews where I read that made it appear that women were probably beating Kaufman off with a stick.

Anyway, this sort of thing is highly off-putting, and I hope you take some heat for it, if only because it will mean you scored a hit.

Perhaps by referencing CONTEMPT, Mr. Levi is implying that the producer...er, producers (there are 16 on this film!) demanded (à la Joseph E. Levine) that Lumet include nude scenes of Tomei.

Regardless, thank god for film critics -- without them we'd never know that a 42 (!!) year-old woman could look good naked.

"Rather sarcastically" Bill? No, the reference was wholly sarcastic, and more than a bit puerile—there was probably a better way of making my point.

Satisfactorily describing the erotic (and its efffect) in films is an, um, sticky matter, admitedly—it's easy to wander into the realm of TMI, which nobody wants. And it's even easier to come off like a dribbling adolescent—so easy you think it might also be easy to avoid...

Yeah, it was wholly sarcastic, but I like to throw around the word "rather" when I'm trying to sound serious.

To be honest, the drooling over Tomei, childish and ridiculous as it is, isn't really what bothers me the most, largely because I'm hardly above that sort of thing myself, and even though I don't write about movies for public consumption, I have to admit that if I did I might let that sort of thing slip from time to time. Then again, I like to think I would be more clever about it, or self-deprecating at the same time.

(Not only that, but it occurs to me that, what with Natalie Portman recently expressing regret for her nude scene in "Hotel Chevalier" and Tomei's own previous long resistance to doing such scenes, these sorts of comments probably really skeev out the actresses in question. I mean, does Edelstein think that Tomei would read his comment that she would look right at home in soft-core porn and think, "Oh, he's so sweet!" Why would he write something like that, read it over, and say "Yes. That is how I would like to come across to my readers"?)

No, I'm actually more bothered by the apparent need of these critics to point out that Phillip Seymour Hoffman doesn't look like Brad Pitt, by which I mean he probably looks like they do. I see these sorts of comments in criticism a lot, and they're cheap shots, and they make me not want to read very much criticism. They give the whole form a bad name, at least to people inclined to read enough criticism to come across them.

Glenn, I'm sure what you say regarding writing about sex in films is correct, but how can you fail to avoid this kind of shit (either the Tomei or the Hoffman comments)?

I agree with Bill that the real bag o' nasty is doughy critics dismissing Hoffman as unworthy of sexing onscreen. But the fact is, people like to look at pretty people naked, and if they are so gratuitously, well, there is a sliding scale as to how "gratuitous" a pleasing eyeful can be. (Which is why the duplicitous word "tasteful" is always thrown around in interviews -- I mean, talk about a sliding scale.)
The fact is, directors aren't speaking for the Doughies in creating these scenes -- the less-than cut and vasc actors are stand-ins for themselves. But the women are ALWAYS fantasy figures, so Tomei better damn straight have a body made for soft-core and a head made for winning unwarranted Oscars. Critics are no different from anyone in the industry in pointing out that an actress over the age of 35 has not devolved into a shrunken hag; they always do, unless the female nudity is, uh, challenging, in which case it's "brave." Also, repellent. See any review of "About Schmidt," which spawned far more truly disgusting comments about Kathy Bates in the hot tub than the unlikely pairing in "Devil."
And, y'know, it's easy to be funny about such things. We've all done it. So much of the dreamstate of cinema is about its beauty; when that is provoked, we're meant to sit up a little straighter.
Full disclosure, so to speak: This is from a 42-year-old woman who's bangin'. Suck it, Tomei!

I know of some sites where the men are as sculpturally hard as Hoffman is soft. Maybe we could communally forward the sites to them.

Daily.

For a year.

Accusing the critics - who are suggesting the doughy Hoffman is unfit for the movie - of being doughy is akin to suggesting they are unfit to criticize. hypocrisy lol

David Denby's review of "The Breakup" lead with a cringe-inducing paean to Jennifer Aniston's naked butt, which made me think two things: Is this what film criticism in the New Yorker has come to? And has this guy never heard of body doubles?

This just shows that critics are just as conditioned as anyone to expect impossible standards of universal beauty on-screen. Though, as a member of the doughy-American community, all I can say to Hoffman is "represent, brother!"

I'm reminded of a long-running debate with a friend of mine over whether Barbara Hershey was, yes, "ugly." I was willing to admit that, in his eyes (definitely not mine), she might be less ultra-attractive than some other ultra-beautiful Hollywood actresses and had perhaps had some unfortunate plastic surgery or something or her lips (they plumped mysteriously around the time of the "The Last Temptation of Christ"), but that she was, in fact, still beautiful by almost any sane standard. His only response: "I just think she's ugly."

The flip side of this was that he thought that almost every woman he knew personally and liked was on the attractive side.

Anyone who thinks Barbara Hershey is ugly is a stupid, stupid person.

But that reminds me of the time I was listening to a radio show around the time "Titanic" came out on video, and one of the hosts was talking about watching it with his son, and laughing about Kate Winslet's nude scene, because they thought she was fat.

Re: the photos

No way! Is Stormy Daniels directing now? Good for her! (She's 28!)

Barbara Hershey got with Naveen Andrews for years. She must have something.

Good post. Reviewer reaction to that sex scene indeed is interesting. I wonder, though, how many doughy, plain-looking male reviewers fell in love with the movie during that first scene. It's not often they get to see someone who looks like they do having sex on screen with someone who looks like Marisa Tomei.

And I wonder how much of their snickering, immature reaction is a subconscious way of dealing with the discomfort they feel at finding the scene so exhilarating.

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